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Thread Admin: AuctionArmsCeo (6-0-0) (Last 10 Posts) Posted: 02/20/2009 at 17:47:30
Total Posts: 87
Thread Title: "Additional Security Measures"
AuctionArmsCeo Unfortunately, we've had to implement a new security measure which we hope won't inconvenience too many folks. In closed auctions, we've now screened all bidder nicknames, except to those that have participated in the auction. In other words, if you're a bidder, you can see your nickname and the seller's nickname. If you're the seller, you can see all the bidders. If you're not participating in the auction, you can only see the seller.

The reason we chose to implement this change is because of fraud. "Black Hats" were contacting bidders by taking their nicknames and adding an @aol.com or @hotmail.com, or @yahoo.com to their existing nicknames. They were impersonating the seller, and asking for money, stating that the high bidder had backed out.

The best way to combat this, is to make it hard for the fraud to contact the high bidder be masking the high bidder's nickname.

Let me know what you think, and thanks for your patience.
-manny
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Former Seller: Petesguns(991-0-0) Post#28 - Posted: 02/25/2009 at 16:00:42
Petesguns I understand what AA is doing to try to combat scammers. I simply feel there are other ways to combat these problems. AA could access their computer database for user names vs. email addresses and require those who use their email prefix as their user name to change one or the other. AA could also make a one time, REFUNDABLE charge, via a credit card for all new members who sign up on AA. THAT way, their identity could be compared via the credit card info to confirm validity. Once confirmed, it could be refunded or voided. Way too many people are signing up with bogus info. Heck, Wile E. Coyote could sign up if he wanted and would never be caught until AFTER he/she has wreacked havoc with someone's auction. AA could actually provide TOTAL conatct info to the seller or the winner of an item to show the actual person one will be dealing with. None of these methods will totally solve the deadbeat/scammer issue, but it sure could go a long way towards addressing the actual perpetrators of these frauds, instead of attacking the honest members of the site. OH MY!!!! It's kinda like gun control........they only target the lawful gun owners instead of the criminals. Total paranoia of "black hats" and "evildoers" will ony further the effects on honest members and not affect the bad guys at all.

Seller: Hartwell Gun(1060-1-2) Post#29 - Posted: 02/25/2009 at 16:06:15
Hartwell Gun Just forbid the use of your e-mail address as your auction name!! Most of these scams,if successful, are self inflected wounds-either from greed or hate to say it-stupidity.Some people like to see who they are budding against before they jump in-Is it a pro bidding or a green horn!!!JMO

Seller: AA-bob(3-0-0) Post#30 - Posted: 02/25/2009 at 17:07:19
AA-bob

ODOTER, thanks for your input. To address your question regarding not providing a seller's address information, even to winning bidders. We want sellers to provide specific payment instructions and the specific address to where payment is to be sent.

This is important for several reasons.

One, sometimes a seller will have many items on auto-relist but, god forbid, the seller expires, moves or otherwise is no longer available to service his sales. By requiring positive contact between a seller and a buyer, post-auction, we have positive instructions provided to a buyer and re-enforcement that the seller is still alive and kicking with up-to-date info on where payment/FFL is to be sent.

Two, many times a seller will have a lock-box set up exclusively to accept payments and wants no other correspondence sent to that address, all other address information such as his FFL and registered address will be to a different address and is the one his account/Credit Card address is registered to.

Three, we want a positive contact with specific information from a seller to a buyer. This gives the buyer some added peace of mind prior to sending off a payment.

Buyers should always check and compare the email address from which payment instructions are sent to the registered email address of the seller which we provide them.

Hope this helps.

Petesguns, as always appreciate your suggestions and insight. We have reviewed your (again) suggestion many times regarding taking a bidder credit card. After analyzing the risk/benefit, we have declined from doing this as it would unnecessarily decrease the number of bidders the site brings to compete on your auctions. It would do absolutely nothing to counter this scam in particular since the scammers are not registered with AuctionArms, but merely preying on the information we were posting about bidders.

Your suggestion regarding trying to get users to change their email addresses or user nickname was investigated. We decided against something along these lines as it would be a major inconvenience to many users, who rather than complying, would simply go dormant, something non of us want, I think you'll agree. Balanced against the "need" of other users to see information on auction participants in auctions they are not involved in we found no justifiable "need" for non-participants to view this information.

Thanks again to all who have contributed to this discussion.

Former Seller: Petesguns(993-0-0) Post#31 - Posted: 02/25/2009 at 17:27:03
Petesguns BOB, thanks for the comments, but you have completely failed to get the gist of my suggestion of the credit card sign up idea. It is NOT to reduce the email scammers, but is meant to attack the number of newly signed up members who use bogus info such as non existent names, addresses and phone numbers to access the site simply to mess with auctions by deadbeating. Other sites use the credit card charge to investigate the validity of holders of free email accounts such as Hotmail, Google, Yahoo, etc, and do so to good advantage, I am sure, with no reduction in membership numbers. It COULD also be refunded as I suggested after validation was achieved. As I am sure you know, ANYONE can sign up as a member here, with ANY name they want, even Elmer Fudd. It is the DEADBEAT issue this suggestion was meant to fight, not email scammers. I do not know what deadbeat percentages are on other sites, but for me, it runs here at about 3.5% of all sales ending in a deadbeat.

I can understand your decision not to tell members they have to change a name or email. However, you could fight this by disallowing any NEW signups to use the email address prefix as their user name. I just recently had a scammer attempt to sell one of my items to a member by the email scam. Fortunately, the person being scammed was aware of the issue, and didn't fall for it. I also, must respectfully disagree with you on the "need" for uninvolved people to see this info, but that is what makes this country great, at least for now; the right to agree to disagree.

Former Seller: ELDORADO 1(235-0-0) Post#32 - Posted: 02/25/2009 at 17:57:18
(no avatar) How about this. All new members must call the catherder before their account is activated. In the conversation if it sounds like they are from Nigeria then Bob wacks them....and if they sound legit then Bob has on his caller I.D. a number to compare with the registered number.

I have to throw my vote with the one's that don't like not seeing the bidders and yes it does remind me of EvilBay!

Former Seller: babun(97-1-0) Post#33 - Posted: 02/25/2009 at 18:33:53
(no avatar) I am a new seller here, and have read all the posts, pro and con, I must add my name to the short list that likes the new feature. Before I explain why, I must ask all posters to temporary forget that ebay is anti-gun. They are the biggest and the most respected market place for internet sales. This hiding of names has worked for them. Please remember this is a business for the folks at AA. And any business must watch and sometimes copy what works in the market place. I have sold and bought on ebay for over 12 years with over 3000 feedbacks, before getting out of that end of my business. I hope AA grows and grows, but to do that it must protect the buyers first. Even if at a small inconvenience to the sellers. The key to any internet sales business is get as many buyers and bidders as possible, this will raise prices that the sellers end up getting, and will therefore have more sellers looking to join in. You don't need 135 sellers looking to sell the same Model 500 Mossberg, but you sure want to have 135 bidders looking to buy a mod 500 mossberg. JMHO bob

Former Seller: gov2mod(2170-0-0) Post#34 - Posted: 02/25/2009 at 19:07:19
gov2mod The reason anything (hiding user names, you can only view items for 30 days, no guns parts, etc.) works on Ebay is because they make up their own rules as they go, this is how it's going to be, and if you don't like it then tough for you, go somewhere else. They have terrible customer service, you can't hardly ever contact a live human to talk to, or at least one that speaks fluent English. I don't like the new "hidden" user names but what am I going to do about it? I'm staying right here, it's still much better than Ebay or that "other" gun site.

Former Seller: babun(97-1-0) Post#35 - Posted: 02/26/2009 at 02:41:46
(no avatar) Just a second thought about the hidden bidder list.. I think you will find that it will lead to higher and more bids for you the sellers"s. And isn't that what you want, more money for your items. That is what happened on ebay and at all the many live auctions I attend. If you go to a live auction, you will see many bidders that are very discreet with their bidding motions. bob

Buyer: ODOTER(76-0-1) Post#36 - Posted: 02/26/2009 at 04:02:07
(no avatar) I like to see the names of all bidders during and after the auction. It gives me some valuable information. The Blue Book of Gun Values is only a guideline with a ballpark figure based upon condition of the gun. When I see who I bid against and notice that they have less than 10 successful bids, I at least consider the possibility that they are not a gun collector and may not know the true value of the gun. They may be bidding whatever it takes to get that gun. Certainly, that assumption could be wrong, but at the same time I look to see who else was bidding. If it includes bidders with a high success rate and they fell out early in the bidding, then I figure the gun value has likely been exceeded. I also go back to "My Close Bids" and "My Watchlist-Closed" and perform this same evaluation. When I cannot lookup the bidders, I lose this information. That my cause me to be less willing to advance a bid on a later auction on a similar gun.

Former Seller: Joes Custom Guns(377-2-2) Post#37 - Posted: 02/26/2009 at 04:44:04
(no avatar) ODOTER...I have already fightered out how to beat the new ststem,Maybe you need to do your homework

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