|(Forum Home)--->(Help!?!)--->(Need information on an Aeronautica Argentina 1927 colt 1911)|
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|Seller: gov2mod(1782-0-0)||Post#1 - Posted: 07/02/2007 at 05:49:51|
|I don't think they ever made them from stainless steel but the Argentine's did a fine job of polishing things before they were blued. In the case of their 1909 Argentine Mauser rifles the receivers were not blued but polished so well they looked like chrome.|
|Thread Admin: LCW71291(32-0-0)||Post#2 - Posted: 07/02/2007 at 08:22:09|
|(no avatar)||I have a professional buffer, polisher, grinder and have worked on this gun for 5 hours and it is still looking like a stainless steele gun. I have done everything to this thing and it will not change. I can send you a picture to show you, and then maybe you can see for yourself. Do you have any idea on the value of this gun? Thank you in advance, still a confessed gun collector|
|Former Seller: eastbank(23-0-0)||Post#3 - Posted: 07/02/2007 at 11:47:50|
|(no avatar)||hit it with a little cold blue, stainless steel will not turn blue. regular steel will. eastbank.|
|Thread Admin: LCW71291(32-0-0)||Post#4 - Posted: 07/02/2007 at 15:40:24|
|(no avatar)||I have used the cold blue, it did not blue. Do you have any idea on what the value of this gun would be? It does have all the original parts. Thank you in advance, still confussed|
|Buyer: 5thcommjarhead(37-0-0)||Post#5 - Posted: 07/03/2007 at 07:16:05|
|LCW - Any time you get into 1911's and clones, you open up an economy-sized can of worms. Here's what it says in Fjestad:
ARGENTINE CONTRACT MODEL 1927 - serial numbered 1-10,000 under the mainspring housing and on the top of slide (should be matching), must have Argentine crest and "Model 1927" on right side of slide, external serial number applied to top of slide by the Argentine Arsenal, most have been Arsenal refinished.
Price range: $1,150 for 100% - $450 for 60%
ARGENTINE MFG. - in 1927, the Argentine Arsenal "DGFM-FMAP" began manufacturing the Model 1911A1. The slide marking is two lines and reads "EJERCITO ARGENTINO SIS.COLT.CAL 11.25mm MOD.1927"
Price range $750 - $325 (add 50% for original finish). My guess would be that it was made for/issued to the Argentine Air Force. If it has no Argentine crest, I'd say it was the latter even if the serial number would make you possibly think otherwise, since the serial number range 84401-9600 were manufactured by Colt. The Standard Catalog of Firearms lists the gun as being w/o the Swartz safety and price range of $1,100 (excellent) to $450 (poor). There was no mention in either book of any of these pistols being manufactured in stainless steel.
BTW, I've seen your inadvertent spelling "confussed" before and I love it almost as much as "clearification" as a much more descriptive word. My personal dictionary defines "CONFUSSED" as "adj. - being uncertain about something and complaining (fussing) about it."
Hope this helps.
|Seller: ELDORADO 1(185-0-0)||Post#6 - Posted: 07/03/2007 at 08:05:29|
|(no avatar)||LCW....I spent considerable amount of time researching my library trying to find one that was made in stainless and came up with nothing. My personal library goes only back to 1951 for such items but it should have listed it somewhere if it was commonly produced that way. So, for what it's worth I would have to say that what you have is not your typical model 1927. If there are any collectors of this weapon maybe they will be able to shed more light on the subject, but I never personally considered the Argentine produced firearms as collectable. I have been wrong before...maybe...lol so I would hold off reaching the value of this until you can at least document that they were actually produced in stainless. Sorry I couldn't be of more help. Good Luck!|
|Thread Admin: LCW71291(32-0-0)||Post#7 - Posted: 07/03/2007 at 09:00:41|
|(no avatar)||Here is what I have found so far... Thank you to everyone!!! In 1927, Argentina negotiated a contract with Colt for the manufacture of caliber .45 automatic pistols specially marked and serial numbered in its own series, and secured a license agreement giving Argentina the right to manufacture pistols. The agreement specified that: A. Colt would manufacture 10,000 Colt automatic pistols, caliber .45, Argentine Model 1927, for the Argentine army. B. Colt would supply Argentina with complete know-how for future Argentine production of Model 1927 pistols, including drawings, manufacturing instructions (operation sheets), material specifications, tool requirements, etc. C. Colt would train Argentine technicians in manufacturing, operations and inspection. An Argentine commission was assigned to Colt, however, at that time, Argentina was not prepared to initiate pistol production due to a lack of manufacturing facilities and a shortage of steel. In Late 1923 Argentina adopted an armaments bill that would eliminate Argentine dependency on foreign arms. Under this bill, the Argentine Congress authorized appropriations for a military modernization program and prepared the infrastructure for a domestic arms industry. In accordance with this new law, an aircraft factory was established in 1927, a munitions factory in 1933, a small steel mill in 1934, and a small arms factory in 1936, all of which were managed by Argentine army officers. In October of 1941, the General Directorate of Military Factories (Direccion General de Fabricaciones Militares, or DGFM) was formed. This was a government owned enterprise organized under the War Minister to establish a steel industry and build armament plants. The DGFM became a huge industrial empire controlled and operated by the army, similar to the U.S. Ordnance Department and its manufacturing arsenals. All factories operated by the DGFM were managed by army officers. This army-controlled industry produced all military weapons and equipment, and also manufactured a wide variety of nonmilitary products for commercial sales. As you have observed Argentine Model 1927 quality seems to be high.|
|Thread Admin: LCW71291(32-0-0)||Post#8 - Posted: 07/03/2007 at 15:01:27|
|(no avatar)||The slide reads "AERONAUTICA ARGENTINA 91###-42##." "SIST.COLT.CAL.11.25mm MOD.1927" THE FRONT SIGHT IS STEEL AND IS STAKED ALL THE WAY THROUGH TO THE INSIDE OF THE SLIDE. ALSO THE BARREL IS STAINLESS STEEL AND HAS THE MATCHING SER. NUMBER. THE FIRING PIN, BEAVERTAIL,THUMB SAFTEY, MAINSPRING, MAINSPRING PLUNGER,AND SLIDE STOP ARE ALL STAINLESS. THE DISCONECTOR,FIRING PIN STOP,MAG CATCH, AND SMALL PINS ECT ARE STEEL. ALSO THE ORIGINAL HANDGUARD BUSHINGS AND SCREWS ARE STAINLESS. IT APPEARS IT WAS PARKERIZED A LIGHT GREY COLOR (STILL HAS REMAINING PARK ON INSIDE OF SLIDE AND INSIDE MAG AREA/FRAME. ANY INFO WILL BE VERY HELPFULL.|
|Seller: Elitist(94-0-0)||Post#9 - Posted: 07/03/2007 at 20:11:41|
|It sems HIGHLY unlikely this gun is stainless steel, though it's not impossible. But stainless steel wasn't widely used for pistols--certainly not military issue pistols--until perhaps 20 yeas ago, and the Argentine Colts are much older than that. The only way to be sure you have a stainless steel gun is to submit it to a lab for non-destructive testing with a "X-ray diffraction analysis," which will tell you elemental composition and whether it is in fact stainless. My guess is that it's chromed. You'd get a strong chromium line on the X-ray analysis. If it's stainless you'd expect to see vanadium and a couple of other elements besides iron. Stainless steel from 50-60 years ago was so hard to work that gun makers avoided it. It wasn't until fairly recently that "machineable" stainless was available, and any gun that predates 1965 or so...highly unlikely to be stainless steel.|
|Former Seller: OLD RATTLER(153-0-0)||Post#10 - Posted: 07/04/2007 at 05:56:18|
|(no avatar)||Stick a magnet to it.|