GunAuction Forum - To ALL 01 FFL HOlders!! PLease Read.
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|Seller: Elitist(97-0-0)||Post#1 - Posted: 11/18/2007 at 09:05:35|
|My feelings on this are that you want to screw -03 FFL's to make more money yourself. I'm not sure that's defensible, but quite aside from that, your proposal plays the "divide and conquer" game for the Bad Guys quite nicely. No suppliers to sell to -03 FFL's? Then why have -03 FFL's, President Clinton? If the C&R license ceases to be hwta it's supposed to be, a way to enhance a collection, then someone, somewhere, in the BATF is going to propose eliminating it, and it's dealers like you who will have helped put that idea into their heads.
Back in the late 1960's when the government was debating the Gun Control Act, the manufacturers and dealers supported it. Why? becaise they saw cheap foreign-made imports as competition and they saw the ban on them as a way to make more money. Dealers played footsie with the Bad Guys then, and look what has happened to everyone, in part by their willingness to cooperate with the Forces Of Darkness. ANYTHING they can get they will take, and come back for more. Sooner or later, they'll get around to YOU. Maybe not today, maybe not tomorrow, but eventually they'll come after the storefront -01's as well as the "hip pocket" -01's they cleared out (with the support of storefront dealers) in the last Clinton administration, when they purged 35% of all FFL holders. If they go after -03's and you help them...it will only be a matter of time before they come for you, too.
One for all, all for one. We are all in the gun game together, and there is no advantage to you, ultimately, in helping the other side. That's what this proposal would do.
|Seller: Hartwell Gun(801-1-2)||Post#2 - Posted: 11/18/2007 at 10:01:05|
|Heuy26-I am a store front 01 FFL and have been for many years(1985).I see nothing wrong with a 03 collector buying relics at the same prices.Most C&R items,now available are inexpensive and not a high profit item for a store front to worry with.In the customer area of my store i have a rack with 30 are so old Mausers, Mosins, Enfields,ect.I sell a many to the non 03 locals and also a bunch to the area 03 holders who want to pick their rifle and eliminate a UPS surprise.I buy many from 03's that have lost interest in collecting or have acquired a taste for 01 firearms, making a new customer in the process.A large number of my on line sales are to 03C&R's.What is the difference? A non licensed individual can go to the CMP and get a rifle at what a 01 would normally pay it for resale.The only issue i have with the C&R is if they are using it illegally to make a profit, and it is only a matter of time until they greeted by the "we got'ya boys".So in closing i guess i will not be getting on your petition,after all..P.S.I have a $25 transfer fee,a 10% order fee that has a min of $25 and a max of $100.|
|Thread Admin: huey26us(35-1-1)||Post#3 - Posted: 11/18/2007 at 11:41:12|
|(no avatar)||hey elitest, do you show every customer what you paid for what they are wanting to buy? why do all the suppliers of 01 firearms and acc.require sales tax numbers and pics of your store and bank accounts and references to be able to see their prices? Do you leave your wholesale books out for everyone to read while they wait for service. Do you charge for the free Savage .22 you get when you buy 10 or more in one order?? Doesn't seem like you should then, that ought to be given to the 11'th customer free. 03's buying 03 firearms is a great thing. I had an 03 for a long time. Did I think at that time that an 01 DEALER had to pay the same price as me.. no I didn't, do I think thats fair.. nope. Should my local GM dealership have to pay $25,000 for a car and sell it for that as well. Should Joe Smoe be able to buy direct from gm for the same price a dealership pays? gee that would kind of make things screwed up wouldn't it it would be all big business corporations and no independent shops or stores..the person contributing to the poor state of our union elitest is not me.. its people like you. You and folks like you are the ones who would rather go to Walmart for milk, and spark plugs, and toilet paper, and ground beef and paint, then to the local grocery, the local hardware and the local auto parts. You have an $880.00 (your price) Bushmaster A3 on the shelf advertised for a good price of $1050 (20% markup) A guy goes to Aims website and sees them advertised for $880.00 now he doesnt have an FFL 01 so he calls you to transfer it for him. He pays for it with his credit card, has it shipped to you and comes and gets it pays you the $20 or 25 bucks for a transfer and walks out... who is getting screwed??|
|Seller: Hartwell Gun(801-1-2)||Post#4 - Posted: 11/18/2007 at 13:06:48|
|Heuy26 calm down and take a breath.Any item that comes from a "Wholesaler" like AIM, to my shop is worked on a cost+ 10% and state sales tax is added.He can pay for it by credit card,M.O. or with pesos but it is still +10 and tax.No exception. It seems that your customers are dictating policy to you,rather than you setting the policy.If they don't like your store policy let them go elsewhere.In fact most real large dealers will not accept internet shipments or 10+ orders,they don't need the hassle .I know for a fact AIM will not take a phone order for a firearm unless a FFL is on file.Now if a FFL is dumb enough to give the buyer a signed FFL copy and the buyer adds payment,and mails it,aim will honor the sale,and ship to the FFL address.If something comes from a individual or if it's a on line sale then that is a flat $25 fee,no tax unless it comes from within my home state.And after a while those $25 (total profit) fees add up.Set your business policy OR the penny pinchers out there will drive you absolutely nuts.|
|Former Seller: KFSLLC(84-0-1)||Post#5 - Posted: 11/18/2007 at 14:27:43|
|(no avatar)||As a store front, when people come in with a SGN add and say "hey I want this...(fill in blank)" We tell them that we do not support published dealer pricing and will charge a standard markup plus shipping for the firearm. Life in the fast lane. As for C&R dealers who cares...let them buy the guns. BTW Century is the boss on that import stuff...I do beleive that is where the other wholesalers are getting most of the stuff you see advertised. About the only thing I get bent on, is when a guy dealing out of his garage, bring a buddy in to my storefront to size up on a gun and then go order it for him. I know its gonna happen just don;t tell me thats what your up too.|
|Seller: Elitist(97-0-0)||Post#6 - Posted: 11/18/2007 at 15:48:31|
|huey26us: I am not not an FFL holder. I gave mine up because the Clintonazi handwriting was on the wall about 10 years ago.
When I do sell a gun, which is rarely (I have often regretted selling one, never regretted giving one away) sometimes I lose money. But I'm not in the business.
Your beef is with wholesalers who sell to legally licensed individuals without regard to what license they hold: you think your license should get preferential treatment on pricing. They disagree. Your proposal has to do with enlarging your bottom line, and while I don't think that's all that bad, I don't think it's all that good. But my objection to the proposal is because in the long run, the -03 holder doesn't hurt you, he helps you because he has to be considered by the Nazis, too, as tghey lay their traps for all of us. If you do something that helps end the existence of -03's--which will be one of the indirect and unintended consequence of your idea if it's adopted--you hurt everyone in the gun culture, yourself included. Sooner or later when all the -03's are gone they'll come for the -01's, and who's going to stand up for YOU?
We are all in this together. I understand that for most of you this is a business and that the guns in your shop are just capital tied up waiting to be sold for a profit. Fine, that's what makes the world go around. But short-sighted proposals to hurt others on the non-profit side of the gun culture is inevitably going to come back and bite you, perhaps sooner than you think.
The anti-gunners are already campaigning for abolition of the collector license AND the end of the definition of "antique" as it currently exists. How long will it take for them to introduce--and pass--bills in the new Congress when President-For-Life Hitlary Clinton is in office? Why on earth would you want to help them in their endeavor? All you'd get out of it is a few pieces of silver. Thirty, at the most.
|Thread Admin: huey26us(35-1-1)||Post#7 - Posted: 11/18/2007 at 16:59:15|
|(no avatar)||Amazingly enough I am not for abolishing the 03 licens, nor is this a political post whci apparently one person would like to turn it into. Anyone who thinks about what I wrote, gets over the whole government out to get everyone who touched a gun once ideas, will understand exactly what I said. They will never abolish firearms ownership because we will not give up our firearms. Just as prohibition did not end drinking, simply mad organized crime way bigger for 10 yrs give or take and then finally came to the conclusion it was a bad idea and repealed it. This was a discussion betyween 01 FFL holders, which elitest is not, that is why I put right in the title of the thread 01 FFL's please read. I didn't ask for everyones opinion, I asked for fellow dealers who are trying to make money doing this, for their ideas and thoughts. No one elses. So in following that train of thought I will not address anyone on this thread that is not a dealer. Everyone who is I am really very interested in what you think.|
|Seller: Hartwell Gun(801-1-2)||Post#8 - Posted: 11/18/2007 at 17:25:53|
|Dr_Dave is cloned??Could be,hell,they just did a monkey a few days ago!!.|
|Seller: axolotl(161-0-0)||Post#9 - Posted: 11/18/2007 at 18:48:45|
|Huey26us; any thread that discusses the firearms business is automatically political. I conduct my business to my satisfaction. I could care less if my customers know my purchase price. I charge 20.00 transfer for online sales. Most of my customers that use me for this, are my regulars whom i`ve turned on to AA to look for hard to get items. For most of the rest simply going to walmart will tell them my cost or damn close to it and they don`t have to subscribe to Shotgun News. Yes i will order an item for 10% over. I demand 'paid if full' before i order. Consequenctly i have the payment and/or the item in hand without anything invested. Simple mathematics will show that 10% of 200.00 is 20.00 and most SOG or Century arms purchases don`t even make that threshold. And if i can hustle a discount on the wholesale price or order enough to get free shipping, that extra profit is mine. I do have a problem with distributers that maintain a storefront and avoid doing business with them when possible but if they are the only source i will use them to make a profit. As to profit margin, my great question is why people will knowingly buy clothes and furniture at 100% mark=up and whine to me and try to chisel my prices. I ask them, do you do that at the grocery store or the gas station? How about at the dry goods store where they bought that pair of jeans or boots they are wearing. What about at the end of the week, when your employer who owes you 1000.00 dollars, askes you if you would take 800.00. And one more question has been bothering me lately. Has any one ever paid retail price for any items at'Joseph A. Banks clothing store'. :} . axolotl|
|Seller: Elitist(97-0-0)||Post#10 - Posted: 11/19/2007 at 10:46:15|
|This was a discussion betyween 01 FFL holders, which elitest is not, that is why I put right in the title of the thread 01 FFL's please read. I didn't ask for everyones opinion, I asked for fellow dealers who are trying to make money doing this, for their ideas and thoughts. No one elses. So in following that train of thought I will not address anyone on this thread that is not a dealer.
Oh,good,another person who thinks it's still 1966 and he can do business the way he "always has." Listen up, clown--you can and probably will delete this response, but someone will see it before you do--you've not only got a bad case of The Greedies, you're deluding yourself. As axolotl says, any discussion of gun sales is a political discussion. They're going to get around to you sooner or later, whether you believe it or not. We're all in this together. If you can't understand that, then you probably also can't understand that it's non-FFL's who keep you in business. Who do you think your customers are? Other FFL holders?
Now, leaving aside the question of your willing compliance with the Forces of Darkness, your proposal stinks because it's intended to screw others to put more money in your pocket. I bet you'd like to go back to the Good old Days of the "Fair Trade Laws," too? And I'll bet you believe Wal-Mart sells "seconds" and "factory rejects" and much other nonsense, too.
Learn to spell before you put me on your blocked bidders list--It's E-L-I-T-I-S-T. Got it? You're already on mine, I won't do business with people who believe others should get screwed for their benefit.